The All Progressives Congress members in the Senate appear still divided. The Lawan group continues to show it is bitter that the Saraki group, in defiance to the party directive, denied it the Senate presidency. What is the situation as an insider?
Let me be honest with you. The so-called factions you talked about is more of an outside talk than inside. In the Senate, we only have one faction and that is the APC and the second one is the PDP. Whatever comes to the floor of the Senate, all the APC senators are ever united. There was no time in the running of the Senate that we exhibited factionalization. Faction is based on interest which is normal in politics. People will try their hands on what they want, but if they don’t get it, we put it behind us and move forward. So, in the Senate so far, none of the members has allowed his or her interest to infringe on the overall interest of the Senate. We can give the Senate that credit that we are ever united in terms of addressing issues that affect the nation. So, the attack from the media on the Senate beats me. For example, is there any issue of national importance the Senate has not touched ? We have had several confirmations, we have screened the ministerial nominees. We have had several bills read and there are some even going through second reading. Anytime issues come up in the Senate, we treat them.
You were reported to be shuttling between the National Leader of your party, Ashiwaju Ahmed Bola Tinubu, the Presidency with a view to resolving the problems the Senate President has over his emergence and even some of your colleagues still acknowledge that there is a faction within the APC in the Senate. Do you still stand by your claim that there is no faction within the APC in the Senate?
Yes, the emergence of the leadership created disaffection between us in terms of the two groups that were interested in the positions, but, generally, when you have groups contesting for positions, it is usually the lucky one that gets it; besides, leadership comes from God. When the Senate President emerged, I wanted to run as Deputy Senate President, but God didn’t make it my way. Along the line, I ended up being the Senate Leader, the other group missed out. Truly, the party was not happy initially about how the whole process that produced the presiding officers, especially the DSP (Deputy Senate President), went, but the same party put all that behind it and said it was ready to move on. So the party wanted to nominate Senators Akume and Lawan for other leadership positions. That too didn’t work. But after sometime, I that emerged as Senate Leader, don’t think I have issues with anybody. My colleagues in the North-East, by God’s grace and by their wish, eight out of about 10 or 11 of us, endorsed me, and that was how I came in. Again, I don’t think we have anything personal against any of our colleagues outside politics.
Senator Lawan is my friend. If God had destined that he became Senate President, I would have embraced his leadership. God destined that I be the Leader of the Senate, and here I am now. I have never seen or heard Senator Lawan coming out to say he was against my emergence as Leader of the Senate. And I would not have had anything against his emergence as Senate President. All of us, as senators, are qualified to be Senate President, it is just that it is only one person that must be there.
The Senate President is presently before the Code of Conduct Tribunal. Are you, like some other people, of the opinion that he should resign from office?
I don’t think so. The Constitution of this country, which guides all of us, is very clear. Everybody is presumed innocent until proved guilty by a competent court of law. As of now, the Senate President is before the court of law; and until he is convicted, I don’t think it will be fair for him to be presumed guilty. It is not a fair comment. What the law says is that until you are proved guilty, you are innocent in the eyes of the law. Please, don’t run more than your shadow.. I think Nigerians should be patient and await the outcome of the verdict of the court. Until that is done, I don’t think it will be fair to ask him to resign. Again, if he felt that he wanted to step aside until he is cleared, that would have been totally different, but to compel him to resign amid the trial is an aberration.
The clearing of the ministerial nominees, especially the controversial ones like former Governor Amaechi of River State, some say, was an anti – climax, making people to conclude that it may have been done in order to give a soft landing to the Senate President, in case he is convicted by the CCT?
I don’t get the logic behind that. Some Nigerians are hailing our actions, because this is, in a long while, the most transparent, thorough screening I have seen. We had instances where this ‘bow and go’ exercise was abused. But what we did now was that even if you were a member of the National Assembly, and you are nominated and because of the respect we have for our colleagues, you can bow and go, we felt you need to interact with us and that was exactly what we did on the floor. You guys (media), no matter what we do, you criticise. If we go right, you criticise, if we go left, it is the same criticism; so, either way, you will never escape criticisms. However, let me say this clearly, the confirmation hearing is a product of our Constitution. And the constitutional requirements for every nominee are very clear. The Senate responsibility is to make sure that every nominee meets those requirements. So far, I don’t think there is any nominee cleared against the constitutional provisions. The constitutional provision is very simple. It states that every nominee must meet the same requirements for those who want to contest for the House of Representatives. And these are basically three. The first is the person must be 30 years old or above.
Two: The person must be educated to the secondary school level or its equivalent. Three: The person must be sponsored or must be a member of a political party. Then there are other requirements that the person must be of sound mind, must not be an ex – convict, tax paying, and most of these people meet the requirements. So, senators constitutionally qualify to be ministers. And section five of the Nigerian Constitution makes it clear. The Constitution did not require us to put them through aptitude test. The Senate has the privilege such that when somebody comes, you can say ‘bow and go’. In the case of Alhaji Lai Muhammed, I moved the motion that being the spokesman for our party, a qualified lawyer, a person of credible character, he should be given that respect to take a bow and go. The Minority Leader seconded it, although there were some dissenting voices, which is normal, the minority will have their say and the majority have their way.
The prevailing situation gives the impression that the Senate may be on collision course with the executive, given that some members of the Senate are presently under going either interrogation or trial before the court for one case or the other. Two clear examples are Senate President Saraki and the Minority Leader?
What collision course? For what? The law is there and nobody is supposed to be above the law. Anybody that has question to answer before the law should be free to do so like the Senate President and the Minority Leader. That is normal. Any accused is innocent until proven guilty beyond all reasonable doubt, because that is what the law says. Otherwise, if it is just accusation, you can accuse anybody. Even the President at one time was accused of several things before the election, he was cleared eventually. So many people have gone through the process and they are out there today without problems. Some of us went through such situation and we are today in positions of leadership. I was accused of sponsoring Boko Haram and I am in court even though there isn’t evidence before the court to prove the allegation. I cannot run away from it. It is normal. But for anybody to be presumed guilty before conviction is not fair.
The PDP spokesperson, in a release, said the Federal Government is arresting political opponents, citing the case of a former governor of Akwa Ibom, Senator Godswill Akpabio of the PDP, because of the fear that the ruling might lose power to the PDP in 2019. What do you think?
I seriously do not see how the arrest of anybody weakens any party. However, Senator Akpabio said he was not arrested but invited by the EFCC and the PDP is saying he was arrested. So, what do we believe? As Akpabio rightly said, if you serve, especially as the governor of a state, a rich state like Akwa-Ibom for eight years, there is bound to be grumbling on issues as expressed in the petition against him. The EFCC has the responsibility to look into the petition and then invite him. And after interrogation, he was allowed to go. I guess that is what. Happened. I have not heard of any arrest. Even the person(Akpabio) involved said he was not arrested, rather, he was invited. So, when PDP is talking about arresting somebody and the person the party is talking about is saying he was not arrested, then you begin to wonder, what really is happening?
Why is the Senate yet to inaugurate standing committees. Does it have anything to do with the instability in the chambre?
Absolutely not. What is the instability in the Senate you are talking about? If there is one, please tell me. Having said that, there are some committees already in place. There is the public accounts, media, and ad – hoc committees to take care of certain things.
What is then delaying the inauguration of the standing committees?
We are taking our time, and, more importantly, we don’t have ministers in place at the moment; if we inaugurate the committees now, what are they going to be doing ? We want the ministers to be in place before we inaugurate the committees. And as you know, government is yet to put in place the cabinet owing to the cleaning exercise the President is under taking. Government took office with almost an empty treasury, a battered system and economy.
The President is trying to streamline the ministries in tandem with the realities on ground. That has not been done yet. So, we want to see how many of the ministries we will have on ground so that that would allow you to carve out appropriate committees to oversight the ministries. This is a new government, unlike the previous government when PDP was in charge, and things were already on ground, so it was easier to inaugurate the committees almost immediately. But now we have a new government,with a new way of doing things. So, I don’t see the need for the hurry.
There is no vacuum so far. Work that needs to be done is being done. I don’t know why you people are worried about committees. There are and will still be a lot of things to be done differently in this Senate. This Senate is more transparent, interactive. You confirmed that you read tweets of the Senate President regularly. That kind of avenue was not there before. This Senate wants to interact more with the people. Before now, the schedule for the day is given the same day, but now senators don’t need to wait to see the schedule for the day same day; we send it to their email boxes. Also our library, we want to make it e-library so that you don’t need to be physically present in the National Assembly before you get your work done. A lot of things are being put in place and will only be visible when they are completed. So, this Senate is totally different from the previous.
Would you say the onslaught of the military against the Boko Haram will meet the December date given by the President to take the insurgents out of the country?
We are hoping that they will meet the deadline. We have recorded successes against the insurgents and; most importantly, this government, under the leadership of President Muhammadu Buhari, is serious about addressing the security challenges. Apart from that of Boko Haram, there are other things affecting us economically, especially oil theft, which is presently being addressed. Kidnapping and armed robbery that are rampant are being addressed too.
The President has been criss – crossing the world in order to get support from the international community. And the International community, because of the integrity of this government, has shown serious commitment by reaching out. Now the army command has shifted to Maiduguri, and the chief of the army staff is regularly seen at the war front.
This is the proactive nature of our military formations.We have seen how many Boko Haram commanders surrendering. Honestly, there is light at the end of the tunnel for us as a nation regarding the Boko Haram insurgency. Unlike before when Nigerians were hopeless, we are very hopeful now that the activities of these insurgents, in a matter of time, will come to an end. Again, insurgency is not a normal war you just use the fire brigade approach to quench.
A lot of things had degenerated before this government came in; so a lot of things are to be put in place before one can comfortably say the war would be won, and now things are being put in place and that is why one can say, based on what the military is doing, in terms of taking the fight or battle to the insurgents, that they will get rid of the insurgents. The bombs explosions here and there are a manifestation of the desperation of the dying insurgents. I just returned from Maiduguri; people there are now more confident and calm; they feel more secure than before. And, by December, I believe the target set by the President is achievable.
You were almost killed by insurgents bombs targetting you in your senatorial district early this year, and the intensity was such that residents of the district had to be evacuated. What is the difference between then and now?
There is a tremendous difference. Most of our people in the Internally Displaced Camps, IDP, in Maiduguri, about 1,000 of them, have been moved back to Gwoza. Presently, virtually all the places occupied by the insurgents have been retaken by our military. The military is in charge of these places. Most of the IDPs are returning home. Only recently,I was with the (Borno) governor and we are in the course of moving the IDPs back to the local government headquarters such that there will be transit camps. The challenge we are presently facing arises from the fact that about 18 of the local government areas were destroyed by Boko Haram, so asking people to go back to their houses without rebuilding them will be difficult and that is why government is trying to rebuild some of these houses before residents of those localities can say they are going back.
The Obasanjo administration, at the inception, was very active with the war on corruption, but the momentum went down. What is the guarantee that history will not repeat itself with this administration?
The good thing about this war against corruption is that a corrupt person will not be able to fight corruption. But every Nigerian knows the credibility, integrity and seriousness of President Buhari. So, it is the advantage he is using to fight corruption head long. Yes, you are right, corruption is not something you can fight and win easily, it is a not a visible war, you have to do thorough investigation, because you are trying to get at corrupt individuals who are trying to frustrate every effort that would lead to their arrest; that is one of the challenges. Meanwhile, the biggest challenge in all of this is that a lot of this corruption is offshore.
That means people steal the money and take it out. Unlike here where you could go to a suspect’s ‘ house, search, get evidence and conviction, when it is offshore, a lot of due delligence would have to be followed. With Buhari in power, I think every Nigerian is confident that we are on the winning side, because he is a transparent person. And that is why the international community and indeed most non-governmental organisations, NGOs, have rallied round him that this is a man who truly and honestly wants to make the desired change in the country. We can see that having him as President and his determination to fight corruption, a lot of things are beginning to change in the country.
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